Comments on: The biggest mistake councils made with online engagement http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/ Using the internet to make government more interesting Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:45:35 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: February 2010 E-Democracy News — Hot Topics | Ashoka.org: News & Knowledge Entrepreneurs http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-6353 February 2010 E-Democracy News — Hot Topics | Ashoka.org: News & Knowledge Entrepreneurs Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:03:00 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-6353 [...] council meetings Mark Pack, a political consultant in the UK, uses this guest post at DavePress to pose an interesting question – Are online webcasts of council meetings worth the [...] [...] council meetings Mark Pack, a political consultant in the UK, uses this guest post at DavePress to pose an interesting question – Are online webcasts of council meetings worth the [...]

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By: February 2010 E-Democracy News — Hot Topics | E-Democracy.Org – Project Blog http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-6332 February 2010 E-Democracy News — Hot Topics | E-Democracy.Org – Project Blog Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:31:11 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-6332 [...] council meetings Mark Pack, a political consultant in the UK, uses this guest post at DavePress to pose an interesting question – Are online webcasts of council meetings worth the [...] [...] council meetings Mark Pack, a political consultant in the UK, uses this guest post at DavePress to pose an interesting question – Are online webcasts of council meetings worth the [...]

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By: davebriggs (Dave Briggs) http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-6183 davebriggs (Dave Briggs) Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:41:53 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-6183 <strong>Twitter Comment</strong> <a href="http://twitter.com/davebriggs" title="Twitter Comment" rel="nofollow"> <div class="ccimg1" title="davebriggs (Dave Briggs)" style="float:left;margin-right:10px;padding:0;width:60px;height:60px;"> <img name="cc_image" title="davebriggs (Dave Briggs)" style="float:left;margin-right:10px;padding:0;width:50px;height:50px;" src="http://purl.org/net/spiurl/davebriggs"> </div> </a> @mafjohnson see [link to post] for a view<br /><br /> - <a href="http://chatcatcher.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Posted using Chat Catcher</a> Twitter Comment


@mafjohnson see [link to post] for a view

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By: Keithy http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-5850 Keithy Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:04:04 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-5850 Just saw an interesting article on webcasting by councils. East Sussex's CC system being used by the police. Senior police officers are expected to face an audience grilling at a Question Time-style event in Lewes next month. Chief Superintendent Robin Smith, commander of Sussex Police's East Sussex division, is due to be joined by Sussex Police Authority members Carole Shaves and Councillor Bob Tidy, and Detective Chief Inspector Michael Ashcroft, head of the county's CID. The event is being held on Thursday January 21 between 6pm and 7.30pm at the council chamber at County Hall in Lewes. It is due to be broadcast live on East Sussex County Council's website, www.eastsussex.gov.uk/webcasts. Just saw an interesting article on webcasting by councils. East Sussex’s CC system being used by the police. Senior police officers are expected to face an audience grilling at a Question Time-style event in Lewes next month.

Chief Superintendent Robin Smith, commander of Sussex Police’s East Sussex division, is due to be joined by Sussex Police Authority members Carole Shaves and Councillor Bob Tidy, and Detective Chief Inspector Michael Ashcroft, head of the county’s CID.

The event is being held on Thursday January 21 between 6pm and 7.30pm at the council chamber at County Hall in Lewes.

It is due to be broadcast live on East Sussex County Council’s website, http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/webcasts.

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By: Keithy http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-5841 Keithy Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:35:36 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-5841 Looking at numbers to understand the success or not of webcasting of meetings is in my ind a mistake. Follwo that path and you end up quering the vlaue of elections if less than 50% vote. At least those councils webcasting are sending a powerfull message that they are open for business and transparent in what they do. In the overall costs of democracy this seems a low cost to incur. Whilst it is possible to find webcasts with low viewship (and I would suggest this is possbily due to marketing plus a continuance of the non citizen friedly language that councils use - but that is another topic) you can also find successes see http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~1867366,00.html nearly 6000 people viewing a council debate live. There are lots of citizens comments such as “At last we will be able to discover what Councillors actually said rather than the potentially biased version propagated by the local media”. It would be a shame to loose anything and any form of editing could only destroy any of the trust that has been built up. Looking at numbers to understand the success or not of webcasting of meetings is in my ind a mistake. Follwo that path and you end up quering the vlaue of elections if less than 50% vote. At least those councils webcasting are sending a powerfull message that they are open for business and transparent in what they do. In the overall costs of democracy this seems a low cost to incur.

Whilst it is possible to find webcasts with low viewship (and I would suggest this is possbily due to marketing plus a continuance of the non citizen friedly language that councils use – but that is another topic) you can also find successes see http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~1867366,00.html nearly 6000 people viewing a council debate live.
There are lots of citizens comments such as “At last we will be able to discover what Councillors actually said rather than the potentially biased version propagated by the local media”. It would be a shame to loose anything and any form of editing could only destroy any of the trust that has been built up.

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By: jensKsorensen (Jens Sorensen) http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-5840 jensKsorensen (Jens Sorensen) Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:34:27 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-5840 <strong>Twitter Comment</strong> <a href="http://twitter.com/jensKsorensen" title="Twitter Comment" rel="nofollow"> <div class="ccimg1" title="jensKsorensen (Jens Sorensen)" style="float:left;margin-right:10px;padding:0;width:60px;height:60px;"> <img name="cc_image" title="jensKsorensen (Jens Sorensen)" style="float:left;margin-right:10px;padding:0;width:50px;height:50px;" src="http://purl.org/net/spiurl/jensKsorensen"> </div> </a> RT @davebriggs The biggest mistake councils made with online engagement [link to post]<br /><br /> - <a href="http://chatcatcher.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Posted using Chat Catcher</a> Twitter Comment


RT @davebriggs The biggest mistake councils made with online engagement [link to post]

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By: bencotton (Ben Cotton) http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-5839 bencotton (Ben Cotton) Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:40:02 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-5839 <strong>Twitter Comment</strong> <a href="http://twitter.com/bencotton" title="Twitter Comment" rel="nofollow"> <div class="ccimg1" title="bencotton (Ben Cotton)" style="float:left;margin-right:10px;padding:0;width:60px;height:60px;"> <img name="cc_image" title="bencotton (Ben Cotton)" style="float:left;margin-right:10px;padding:0;width:50px;height:50px;" src="http://purl.org/net/spiurl/bencotton"> </div> </a> RT @Lisa_Mc_G: RT @davebriggs The biggest mistake councils made with online engagement [link to post]<br /><br /> - <a href="http://chatcatcher.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Posted using Chat Catcher</a> Twitter Comment


RT @Lisa_Mc_G: RT @davebriggs The biggest mistake councils made with online engagement [link to post]

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By: Donald http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-5838 Donald Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:48:58 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-5838 Mark, you too have missed my point. Having worked in online media for the best part of 15 years, I also know that 8 years in an online environment is a long time but my point was mainly related to how fast local governments move. Admittedly, they are getting better at it, but 8 years ago this was state of the art for them. Embracing Twitter and Facebook has been quicker, but do you have figures on the numbers of councils who have embraced this, and properly. I would say this is still relatively low. I also think your arguments for webcasting not being accepted after so long are flawed. You will be aware that the BBC have only just released Democracy Live. I know is slightly different in terms of its content, but the principle is the same. People want to see how governments act, whether central or local, and why shouldn't they be able to do that from their own homes? Adrian: try using your argument about going to your local planning meeting to some rural counties. Would you really like to get home from work, jump in your car (if you have one) or use public transport in the middle of January to travel to a council planning meeting which could involve a lengthy trip for the evening, or get home from work, have some food and sit and watch the debate online? I understand your side of the debate but for every good reason you use there is an equally good counter reason. I was also interested in the debate about using associated documents and agenda's etc using webcasts. Surely this content is already available? I can see all of this and more when I watch my local council debates (Mole Valley). [Now I'm wondering if anyone here has actually seen a proper webcast of a local council meeting!] Mark, you too have missed my point.
Having worked in online media for the best part of 15 years, I also know that 8 years in an online environment is a long time but my point was mainly related to how fast local governments move. Admittedly, they are getting better at it, but 8 years ago this was state of the art for them. Embracing Twitter and Facebook has been quicker, but do you have figures on the numbers of councils who have embraced this, and properly. I would say this is still relatively low.
I also think your arguments for webcasting not being accepted after so long are flawed. You will be aware that the BBC have only just released Democracy Live. I know is slightly different in terms of its content, but the principle is the same. People want to see how governments act, whether central or local, and why shouldn’t they be able to do that from their own homes?

Adrian: try using your argument about going to your local planning meeting to some rural counties. Would you really like to get home from work, jump in your car (if you have one) or use public transport in the middle of January to travel to a council planning meeting which could involve a lengthy trip for the evening, or get home from work, have some food and sit and watch the debate online?
I understand your side of the debate but for every good reason you use there is an equally good counter reason.

I was also interested in the debate about using associated documents and agenda’s etc using webcasts. Surely this content is already available? I can see all of this and more when I watch my local council debates (Mole Valley).
[Now I'm wondering if anyone here has actually seen a proper webcast of a local council meeting!]

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By: Alan Colson http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-5836 Alan Colson Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:18:22 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-5836 I honestly believe video is a waste of money for these sessions. Audio only podcasts would be more accessible. Here's the comment I made on one of our Councillor's blogs http://cllrkenhawkins.co.uk/2009/12/10/full-council-8-december-2009/#comments "Alan Colson says: 10 December 2009 at 8:54 am I came along to view this session, mainly to see what goes on. I found it quite interesting, although as someone who works at the Council, and therefore aware of many of the things being discussed, it was probably easier for me. If we want to engage more with the citizens of the borough, perhaps we should consider making these meetings a little more accessible, and have the Mayor mention the report, and have a 1 or 2 line summary before calling the Councillors up. It would save people trying to find it in the papers, and a bit more ‘user friendly’ if I can use that term here. Also, it may pave the way to record these meetings as podcasts, and make them available on the website, something which would be very useful to people interested in politics/democracy/Solihull who prefer to listen to things on the go, or with visual impairments, rather than sit down to read them. (Although I don’t know who I need to talk to if I want to pursue this idea)" I honestly believe video is a waste of money for these sessions. Audio only podcasts would be more accessible.

Here’s the comment I made on one of our Councillor’s blogs http://cllrkenhawkins.co.uk/2009/12/10/full-council-8-december-2009/#comments

“Alan Colson says:
10 December 2009 at 8:54 am
I came along to view this session, mainly to see what goes on. I found it quite interesting, although as someone who works at the Council, and therefore aware of many of the things being discussed, it was probably easier for me.

If we want to engage more with the citizens of the borough, perhaps we should consider making these meetings a little more accessible, and have the Mayor mention the report, and have a 1 or 2 line summary before calling the Councillors up. It would save people trying to find it in the papers, and a bit more ‘user friendly’ if I can use that term here.

Also, it may pave the way to record these meetings as podcasts, and make them available on the website, something which would be very useful to people interested in politics/democracy/Solihull who prefer to listen to things on the go, or with visual impairments, rather than sit down to read them. (Although I don’t know who I need to talk to if I want to pursue this idea)”

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By: Mark Pack http://davepress.net/2009/12/09/the-biggest-mistake-councils-made-with-online-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-5835 Mark Pack Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:09:44 +0000 http://davepress.net/?p=2847#comment-5835 Donald: in the online world, having been doing things for eight years is a heck of a long time. In much less time, we've seen councils take to Facebook and Twitter and - in some cases - use them well and effectively. If after eights years of webcasting it's still a case of "well, change takes time you know..." then there's something more fundamentally wrong than simply not having let enough years go by. As I said in the post, if you look at other forms of verbatim reporting, overall the world is moving away from rather than towards it. What's the reason to believe that after so long, and going against the grain, things are gong to change for webcasting? As for the alternatives - again I'd point to what I said in the post. Look at what is done with information about meetings online. Often it's minimal, locked away in files that aren't picked up by search engines and without links to background and explanatory information. Taking a council agenda and minutes and turning that into an lively, informative, linked in document will do far more in most cases than webcasting the meeting - and at less cost. Donald: in the online world, having been doing things for eight years is a heck of a long time. In much less time, we’ve seen councils take to Facebook and Twitter and – in some cases – use them well and effectively.

If after eights years of webcasting it’s still a case of “well, change takes time you know…” then there’s something more fundamentally wrong than simply not having let enough years go by. As I said in the post, if you look at other forms of verbatim reporting, overall the world is moving away from rather than towards it. What’s the reason to believe that after so long, and going against the grain, things are gong to change for webcasting?

As for the alternatives – again I’d point to what I said in the post. Look at what is done with information about meetings online. Often it’s minimal, locked away in files that aren’t picked up by search engines and without links to background and explanatory information. Taking a council agenda and minutes and turning that into an lively, informative, linked in document will do far more in most cases than webcasting the meeting – and at less cost.

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