Comments on: Anonymous contributions http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/ Using the internet to make government more interesting Mon, 14 Jun 2010 13:22:05 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Dave http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-183 Dave Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:39:30 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-183 Maybe a better analogy would be an alcoholics anonymous meeting where everyone is wearing beer goggles? I'll get me coat. Maybe a better analogy would be an alcoholics anonymous meeting where everyone is wearing beer goggles?

I’ll get me coat.

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By: ShaneMcC http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-181 ShaneMcC Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:35:59 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-181 I'm no expert but isn't the AA a <a href="http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/geninfo/08anonymity.htm" rel="nofollow">good example</a> where anonymity is assured so that people feel more free to talk? Although many members may use their real name in person they are guaranteed anonymity outside the "fellowship". The problem of an online community is that your comments last longer than the echo in the church hall or whereever the AA is meeting. <em>Shane - I edited your comment just to make your link inline - it was throwing out my beloved page layout! DB</em> I’m no expert but isn’t the AA a good example where anonymity is assured so that people feel more free to talk? Although many members may use their real name in person they are guaranteed anonymity outside the “fellowship”. The problem of an online community is that your comments last longer than the echo in the church hall or whereever the AA is meeting.

Shane – I edited your comment just to make your link inline – it was throwing out my beloved page layout! DB

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By: Steve Dale http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-180 Steve Dale Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:22:47 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-180 I can see that anonymous postings might be relevant to open forums, but my earlier response - and the subsequent post by Dave - refers specifically to virtual 'communities' where the development of trust is a key ingredient for a successful community. In my opinion, anonymous postings reveal lack of trust, and providing this as a supported 'feature' for the community is sending out very mixed signals to the community. A bit like holding an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting at your local pub! I can see that anonymous postings might be relevant to open forums, but my earlier response – and the subsequent post by Dave – refers specifically to virtual ‘communities’ where the development of trust is a key ingredient for a successful community. In my opinion, anonymous postings reveal lack of trust, and providing this as a supported ‘feature’ for the community is sending out very mixed signals to the community. A bit like holding an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting at your local pub!

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By: Dave http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-178 Dave Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:11:18 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-178 The issue for me is that of trust. The whole point of social web based initiatives are too try and increase the levels of trust between the organisation engaging in the medium and those interacting with it. If the organisation is being open and transparent, and providing a platform for people to air their views, how can there really be trust if one side refuses to reveal their identity? As I and Steve pointed out, mechanisms can be put in place to get around the identity issue if it really is a problem, and the message is one thought worth passing on, but this really should be an exception. Of course, one of the risks of any organisation engaging with these tools is that negative comments will come out. The management of that risk is to ensure that criticism is handled positively. Perhaps it's as much about perspective as anything. Anonymous blog comments are one thing, making comments within a professional online network might be quite another. The issue for me is that of trust. The whole point of social web based initiatives are too try and increase the levels of trust between the organisation engaging in the medium and those interacting with it. If the organisation is being open and transparent, and providing a platform for people to air their views, how can there really be trust if one side refuses to reveal their identity?

As I and Steve pointed out, mechanisms can be put in place to get around the identity issue if it really is a problem, and the message is one thought worth passing on, but this really should be an exception.

Of course, one of the risks of any organisation engaging with these tools is that negative comments will come out. The management of that risk is to ensure that criticism is handled positively.

Perhaps it’s as much about perspective as anything. Anonymous blog comments are one thing, making comments within a professional online network might be quite another.

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By: ShaneMcC http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-176 ShaneMcC Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:36:30 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-176 I still don't get the big problem with anonymity. Yes, an anonymous comment carries less weight than one attached to a well-known and respected person. So what? Yes, anonymous comments are more likely to be abusive, but the blog owner can allow registered users to post and pre-moderate anonymous ones, but I don't see the need for the site owner to post on their behalf as Steve suggests. Sorted already. Yes, the poster may have a false sense of security but if someone simply prefers some anonymity as opposed to be afraid of being tracked down throug court action then it isn't an unreasonable step to take by using a false name. I still don’t get the big problem with anonymity.

Yes, an anonymous comment carries less weight than one attached to a well-known and respected person. So what?

Yes, anonymous comments are more likely to be abusive, but the blog owner can allow registered users to post and pre-moderate anonymous ones, but I don’t see the need for the site owner to post on their behalf as Steve suggests. Sorted already.

Yes, the poster may have a false sense of security but if someone simply prefers some anonymity as opposed to be afraid of being tracked down throug court action then it isn’t an unreasonable step to take by using a false name.

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By: Steve Dale http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-174 Steve Dale Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:46:20 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-174 I think your points are well made. I've so far resisted supporting a facility for anonymous contributions on the IDeA CoP platform for local government communities. I attended a facilitator's workshop just before Christmas where this requirement came up (and the ability to post comments to other users' blog entries anonymously). I can understand that some people may wish to submit a non-attributable item or comment, but I do worry that this facility could be abused if it's made an officially supported feature of the platform - e.g. a 'gripe channel'. I've suggested a compromise to those users who are presently lobbying for anonymous postings - give details of the post to the community facilitator and he/she will publish the item on the user's behalf (e.g. with a preamble along the lines of "This issue has been raised by a member of the community. Please let me have your comments". I know this still doesn't guarantee total anonymity since apart from anything else, the facilitator knows who the person is, but I would argue that if something is so sensitive that you can't share it with a trusted member of your own community, then you probably shouldn't be publishing it all. I think your points are well made. I’ve so far resisted supporting a facility for anonymous contributions on the IDeA CoP platform for local government communities. I attended a facilitator’s workshop just before Christmas where this requirement came up (and the ability to post comments to other users’ blog entries anonymously).

I can understand that some people may wish to submit a non-attributable item or comment, but I do worry that this facility could be abused if it’s made an officially supported feature of the platform – e.g. a ‘gripe channel’.

I’ve suggested a compromise to those users who are presently lobbying for anonymous postings – give details of the post to the community facilitator and he/she will publish the item on the user’s behalf (e.g. with a preamble along the lines of “This issue has been raised by a member of the community. Please let me have your comments”. I know this still doesn’t guarantee total anonymity since apart from anything else, the facilitator knows who the person is, but I would argue that if something is so sensitive that you can’t share it with a trusted member of your own community, then you probably shouldn’t be publishing it all.

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By: Kevin Wright (anonymously) http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-173 Kevin Wright (anonymously) Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:44:56 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-173 All the points you make are good, but my concern is really the sense of security people get when they think they are anonymous. The media, in particular the tabloids, are littered weekly (if not daily) with information that comes from people who think they are talking anonymously. Anonymity only works if it is guaranteed - and no sensible ISP can expect to be able to keep user details private if they put up illegal, or even potentially illegal, content. I know that sounds very dramatic, but comments can so easily be libellous or slanderous. Additionally, conflicts of interest could expose anonymity. If you post something on, say, a website run by one government department, who says favours can't be called in from another? Anyone who truly needs or wants to contribute anonymously will set up false accounts linking to false emails and false websites. This requires a lot of hard work on their part (the level depending on how paranoid they are and how much trouble they plan to cause). But this level of work is needed if you want to be anonymous - a simple ANONYMOUS tick box can just create a false sense of security. All the points you make are good, but my concern is really the sense of security people get when they think they are anonymous.

The media, in particular the tabloids, are littered weekly (if not daily) with information that comes from people who think they are talking anonymously.

Anonymity only works if it is guaranteed – and no sensible ISP can expect to be able to keep user details private if they put up illegal, or even potentially illegal, content. I know that sounds very dramatic, but comments can so easily be libellous or slanderous.

Additionally, conflicts of interest could expose anonymity. If you post something on, say, a website run by one government department, who says favours can’t be called in from another?

Anyone who truly needs or wants to contribute anonymously will set up false accounts linking to false emails and false websites. This requires a lot of hard work on their part (the level depending on how paranoid they are and how much trouble they plan to cause). But this level of work is needed if you want to be anonymous – a simple ANONYMOUS tick box can just create a false sense of security.

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By: ShaneMcC http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-172 ShaneMcC Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:16:10 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-172 I'll give you a real example where leaving your real name could be a problem. Barclays recently introduced a new PIN Card Reader for people to access their accounts online. For me it did not function and I was hacked off waiting 45 mins to get through to their call centre. I found a site that was discussing the issue and left a comment under my own name. I also had mentioned to my bank manager that I didn't like the new system and that I wasn't alone judging by what was being said online. The next day he called me back to let me know he thought my comments were unfair. Now I'm sure my lovely bank manager won't hold it against me, but I'll never really know until I need to ask a favour. Maybe I should have made my comment anonymously... I’ll give you a real example where leaving your real name could be a problem. Barclays recently introduced a new PIN Card Reader for people to access their accounts online. For me it did not function and I was hacked off waiting 45 mins to get through to their call centre. I found a site that was discussing the issue and left a comment under my own name.

I also had mentioned to my bank manager that I didn’t like the new system and that I wasn’t alone judging by what was being said online.

The next day he called me back to let me know he thought my comments were unfair.

Now I’m sure my lovely bank manager won’t hold it against me, but I’ll never really know until I need to ask a favour. Maybe I should have made my comment anonymously…

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By: Jeremy Gould http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/comment-page-1/#comment-170 Jeremy Gould Mon, 04 Feb 2008 08:11:51 +0000 http://davepress.net/2008/02/03/anonymous-contributions/#comment-170 Like your point about potentially valid points being ignored, that's good. Like your point about potentially valid points being ignored, that’s good.

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