<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: ICELE &#8211; now you don&#8217;t</title>
	<atom:link href="http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/</link>
	<description>Open government and everything else</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 23:54:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ian Cuddy</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-1309</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Cuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-1309</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s interesting. GroupsNearYou looks like the product VOICE should have been. I doubt it cost nearly quarter of a million and 18 months to produce either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s interesting. GroupsNearYou looks like the product VOICE should have been. I doubt it cost nearly quarter of a million and 18 months to produce either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fraser</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-1017</link>
		<dc:creator>Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-1017</guid>
		<description>Not ignored, misinformed context as usual....

The right way to make a decision is on the basis of wider consultation - this was one of a number of studies and stakeholder opinions.  For example, an academic paper on RMD conducted by Dr Scott Wright, DMU is also published on our website.   

Actually, some of the recommended actions in the report you mention were taken such as building a directory of blogs.  The recommended work on promoting blogging was duplicated by the MOJ Civic Surf Project...by the person that conducted the review for ICELE!

In terms of VOICE, work recommended on building a community directory was replicated by MySociety GroupsNearYou.  A full statement from LDC will cover your formal questions on VOICE shortly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not ignored, misinformed context as usual&#8230;.</p>
<p>The right way to make a decision is on the basis of wider consultation &#8211; this was one of a number of studies and stakeholder opinions.  For example, an academic paper on RMD conducted by Dr Scott Wright, DMU is also published on our website.   </p>
<p>Actually, some of the recommended actions in the report you mention were taken such as building a directory of blogs.  The recommended work on promoting blogging was duplicated by the MOJ Civic Surf Project&#8230;by the person that conducted the review for ICELE!</p>
<p>In terms of VOICE, work recommended on building a community directory was replicated by MySociety GroupsNearYou.  A full statement from LDC will cover your formal questions on VOICE shortly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ian Cuddy</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-938</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Cuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-938</guid>
		<description>Trevor should also check out what they had to say about ReadmyDay, the predecessor to 21Publish&#039;s Blog-in-a-Box.

&quot;The aggregator and publishing platform were not seen as important and from a technical evaluation point of view they are not best of class.

The aggregator (www.readmyday.co.uk) is does not give much information and mainly lists Civic Leaders from the project thereby missing out on the majority of councillors who have blogs on different platforms.

As a publishing platform, ReadMyDay.co.uk (RMD) uses 21Publish, an obscure platform aimed at communities of bloggers. The platform has some advantages but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages and ICELE should consider promoting other more mainstream blogging platforms in order to encourage more widespread blogging by councillors and council officers (users).

Using other platforms will enable users to draw upon a much wider support network and allow their blogs to be more accepted among the wider blogging and internet using community.

There are a number of alternative packages that ICELE could choose to promote or indeed support and each has its own particular advantages depending on the user requirements.&quot;

Looks like that got totally ignored then!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevor should also check out what they had to say about ReadmyDay, the predecessor to 21Publish&#8217;s Blog-in-a-Box.</p>
<p>&#8220;The aggregator and publishing platform were not seen as important and from a technical evaluation point of view they are not best of class.</p>
<p>The aggregator (www.readmyday.co.uk) is does not give much information and mainly lists Civic Leaders from the project thereby missing out on the majority of councillors who have blogs on different platforms.</p>
<p>As a publishing platform, ReadMyDay.co.uk (RMD) uses 21Publish, an obscure platform aimed at communities of bloggers. The platform has some advantages but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages and ICELE should consider promoting other more mainstream blogging platforms in order to encourage more widespread blogging by councillors and council officers (users).</p>
<p>Using other platforms will enable users to draw upon a much wider support network and allow their blogs to be more accepted among the wider blogging and internet using community.</p>
<p>There are a number of alternative packages that ICELE could choose to promote or indeed support and each has its own particular advantages depending on the user requirements.&#8221;</p>
<p>Looks like that got totally ignored then!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-931</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-931</guid>
		<description>Thanks for stopping by, Ian. A pretty damning indictment. And this is what happens when ICELE &lt;em&gt;paid&lt;/em&gt; people for opinions? ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for stopping by, Ian. A pretty damning indictment. And this is what happens when ICELE <em>paid</em> people for opinions? <img src='http://davepress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ian Cuddy</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Cuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-930</guid>
		<description>&#039;Trevor&#039;

I suggest you read the independent evaluation of VOICE commissioned by ICELE. Here&#039;s the link:
http://www.icele.org/downloads/ICELE_Evaluation_-_Executive_Summary_forpublish.pdf

I quote:

&#039;The hosted Content Management System (CMS) has been developed over the
past five years with the aim of providing local community groups a website and email list presence. It is technically ambitious and has a wide range of features.

It is unclear however if it has anything significant that is not matched by offerings from the private sector that are available to groups at little or no cost.

Additionally the expectation is that the private sector products will continue to develop whereas VOICE will require public investment to develop.

The VOICE CMS is a product that has missed its chance. The profusion of blogs and sites such as GeoCities mean that local groups can simply and very easily create a web presence and the likes of GoogleGroups make email lists very simple. Added to this a number of private sector suppliers such as UKVillages and South Wiltshire Community Web already provide a similar service. Finally it is not clear to everyone why it should fall into the eDemocracy bag.

There are real questions about what advantage a CMS like VOICE can provide local groups. Administrators of VOICE report that only a third of registered users actually maintain a site, and that the people running local groups are either going to be inclined to set up a web presence or they will not. The provision of a service such as VOICE is unlikely to change their mind.

There is more to be positive about on the directory side of the VOICE project from a concept point of view. However the existing technology is not great and the take-up is poor. For example in Essex: essexinfo.net has 353 groups registered whereas the longer standing LIFE (http://life.essexcc.gov.uk:8081/) project has over 8,000 groups registered.

It seems to us that VOICE is trying to be two things. A directory and a website builder. It is currently failing at both. The majority of groups on existing VOICE entries use it simply as a directory listing for their group. A fully blown CMS is not needed for this. A simple Web Form on a Council site would suffice to allow groups to add to existing databases of local groups. There are plenty of commercial CMS’s that will allow groups to produce free or cheap websites with far more sophistication and usability than provided by VOICE.

We recommend that ICELE refocus the VOICE project on developing a national directory of local groups. Instead of developing a CMS, ICELE should produce guides to using the best available options.&#039;

I think that speaks for itself, don&#039;t you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Trevor&#8217;</p>
<p>I suggest you read the independent evaluation of VOICE commissioned by ICELE. Here&#8217;s the link:<br />
<a href="http://www.icele.org/downloads/ICELE_Evaluation_-_Executive_Summary_forpublish.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.icele.org/downloads/ICELE_Evaluation_-_Executive_Summary_forpublish.pdf</a></p>
<p>I quote:</p>
<p>&#8216;The hosted Content Management System (CMS) has been developed over the<br />
past five years with the aim of providing local community groups a website and email list presence. It is technically ambitious and has a wide range of features.</p>
<p>It is unclear however if it has anything significant that is not matched by offerings from the private sector that are available to groups at little or no cost.</p>
<p>Additionally the expectation is that the private sector products will continue to develop whereas VOICE will require public investment to develop.</p>
<p>The VOICE CMS is a product that has missed its chance. The profusion of blogs and sites such as GeoCities mean that local groups can simply and very easily create a web presence and the likes of GoogleGroups make email lists very simple. Added to this a number of private sector suppliers such as UKVillages and South Wiltshire Community Web already provide a similar service. Finally it is not clear to everyone why it should fall into the eDemocracy bag.</p>
<p>There are real questions about what advantage a CMS like VOICE can provide local groups. Administrators of VOICE report that only a third of registered users actually maintain a site, and that the people running local groups are either going to be inclined to set up a web presence or they will not. The provision of a service such as VOICE is unlikely to change their mind.</p>
<p>There is more to be positive about on the directory side of the VOICE project from a concept point of view. However the existing technology is not great and the take-up is poor. For example in Essex: essexinfo.net has 353 groups registered whereas the longer standing LIFE (<a href="http://life.essexcc.gov.uk:8081/" rel="nofollow">http://life.essexcc.gov.uk:8081/</a>) project has over 8,000 groups registered.</p>
<p>It seems to us that VOICE is trying to be two things. A directory and a website builder. It is currently failing at both. The majority of groups on existing VOICE entries use it simply as a directory listing for their group. A fully blown CMS is not needed for this. A simple Web Form on a Council site would suffice to allow groups to add to existing databases of local groups. There are plenty of commercial CMS’s that will allow groups to produce free or cheap websites with far more sophistication and usability than provided by VOICE.</p>
<p>We recommend that ICELE refocus the VOICE project on developing a national directory of local groups. Instead of developing a CMS, ICELE should produce guides to using the best available options.&#8217;</p>
<p>I think that speaks for itself, don&#8217;t you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-916</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 11:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-916</guid>
		<description>Trevor, thanks for stopping by and leaving some supporting remarks on behalf of ICELE - a shame you weren&#039;t around in the previous discussions to provide a bit of balance.

I can&#039;t comment on Prof. Coleman&#039;s motives for questioning what ICELE had achieved. All I do know is that his questions produced a considerable amount of discussion and was an issue that folk clearly wanted to talk about. Indeed, it was noticed by a few people that ICELE&#039;s site itself is a profoundly uninteractive affair, and nobody from that organisation was significantly tuned into what was being said about them online to join in the conversation until it was frankly too late.

And I don&#039;t think it is me that is missing the point at all. I could produce a blogging platform exactly long the lines you are talking about for about £50 - and that would be for the whole network. How? By using WordPressMU. Free, open source and scalable, as proven by WordPress.com.

And aggregating all local authority bloggers? Really? How? Who are they? I&#039;m sorry, but that doesn&#039;t stand up at all. The only way you are going to be able to do that is to come up with a way to bring together the distributed network of bloggers through, say, a common tagging scheme. Not by forcing people to use your platform.

As for VOICE, well, as I said, I don&#039;t know much about it, and only reported that the opinions I had heard weren&#039;t exactly glowing. But it sounds like the sort of thing that could be replicated in Drupal in about half an hour, again with very little cost.

If you have read any of the rest of my blog here, you&#039;ll realise that I am not a negative voice that does down everything the government attempts. I spend enough of my own free time trying to work with people to make things better - take LGSearch, which sees thousands of hits a week from folk throughout local government. Again, a free, simple tool that makes people&#039;s lives a bit easier. ICELE probably didn&#039;t know a thing about it - they certainly never got in touch. Not exactly &#039;integrating good practice&#039;, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevor, thanks for stopping by and leaving some supporting remarks on behalf of ICELE &#8211; a shame you weren&#8217;t around in the previous discussions to provide a bit of balance.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t comment on Prof. Coleman&#8217;s motives for questioning what ICELE had achieved. All I do know is that his questions produced a considerable amount of discussion and was an issue that folk clearly wanted to talk about. Indeed, it was noticed by a few people that ICELE&#8217;s site itself is a profoundly uninteractive affair, and nobody from that organisation was significantly tuned into what was being said about them online to join in the conversation until it was frankly too late.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think it is me that is missing the point at all. I could produce a blogging platform exactly long the lines you are talking about for about £50 &#8211; and that would be for the whole network. How? By using WordPressMU. Free, open source and scalable, as proven by WordPress.com.</p>
<p>And aggregating all local authority bloggers? Really? How? Who are they? I&#8217;m sorry, but that doesn&#8217;t stand up at all. The only way you are going to be able to do that is to come up with a way to bring together the distributed network of bloggers through, say, a common tagging scheme. Not by forcing people to use your platform.</p>
<p>As for VOICE, well, as I said, I don&#8217;t know much about it, and only reported that the opinions I had heard weren&#8217;t exactly glowing. But it sounds like the sort of thing that could be replicated in Drupal in about half an hour, again with very little cost.</p>
<p>If you have read any of the rest of my blog here, you&#8217;ll realise that I am not a negative voice that does down everything the government attempts. I spend enough of my own free time trying to work with people to make things better &#8211; take LGSearch, which sees thousands of hits a week from folk throughout local government. Again, a free, simple tool that makes people&#8217;s lives a bit easier. ICELE probably didn&#8217;t know a thing about it &#8211; they certainly never got in touch. Not exactly &#8216;integrating good practice&#8217;, eh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-915</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 20:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-915</guid>
		<description>Do you not think Colemans question was timely, perhaps in an effort to kill of any hope for ICELE at a time when that was being debated?
Let&#039;s face it - it&#039;s competition for his own centre.

Actually, I think you&#039;re missing the point on a couple of things here.  How many free blogging services do you know offer integrated domain name registration, aggregate all local authority bloggers in a categorised directory or are free of ads?  Or have templates for political parties?

I suggest you read the new academic report by Dr Scott Wright on the news section of www.icele.org to understand why ICELE made a bespoke offering.

It&#039;s was all about integrating good practice.

If VOICE is so rubbish why does it have over 2,800 users.  Does it not offer a solution at a fraction of the price of the equivalent commercial offering (£3k compared to £80k)?

It&#039;s easy to say something is rubbish, unfortunately it&#039;s the bandwagon of negativity and &quot;I&#039;ve heard so it&#039;s true&quot; that is probably preventing LA&#039;s ever taking serious note of eDemocracy efforts.

The same attitudes will exist whatever government does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you not think Colemans question was timely, perhaps in an effort to kill of any hope for ICELE at a time when that was being debated?<br />
Let&#8217;s face it &#8211; it&#8217;s competition for his own centre.</p>
<p>Actually, I think you&#8217;re missing the point on a couple of things here.  How many free blogging services do you know offer integrated domain name registration, aggregate all local authority bloggers in a categorised directory or are free of ads?  Or have templates for political parties?</p>
<p>I suggest you read the new academic report by Dr Scott Wright on the news section of <a href="http://www.icele.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.icele.org</a> to understand why ICELE made a bespoke offering.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s was all about integrating good practice.</p>
<p>If VOICE is so rubbish why does it have over 2,800 users.  Does it not offer a solution at a fraction of the price of the equivalent commercial offering (£3k compared to £80k)?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to say something is rubbish, unfortunately it&#8217;s the bandwagon of negativity and &#8220;I&#8217;ve heard so it&#8217;s true&#8221; that is probably preventing LA&#8217;s ever taking serious note of eDemocracy efforts.</p>
<p>The same attitudes will exist whatever government does.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-913</guid>
		<description>Yup, great discussion going on there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, great discussion going on there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Clift</title>
		<link>http://davepress.net/2008/05/29/icele-now-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Clift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 13:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davepress.net/?p=391#comment-912</guid>
		<description>There is a big chat about this on the UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange: http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a big chat about this on the UK and Ireland E-Democracy Exchange: <a href="http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie" rel="nofollow">http://groups.dowire.org/groups/ukie</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

